Family and Relationships

Barry Loveland was born December 28th, 1956 in Schenectady, New York. After graduating from high school, Barry attended Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, where he obtained a Bachelors of Science degree in Architecture and Building Sciences. Following his undergraduate career, Barry got accepted at Eastern Michigan University, where he earned a Masters in Historic Preservation Planning and became very active in the LGBT community. Since his participation, Barry has been an integral member of this community. From developing Montgomery, Alabama’s first gay organization to the creation of Common Roads, Barry has demonstrated his drive and his passion for the success and the advancement of the LGBT community. In this interview, Barry discusses in great length the numerous activist roles that he has possessed in his lifetime as well as the opportunities resulting from his selfless work. Also in this interview, Barry reveals the details of his own personal lifelong journey of coming out and what support systems he uncovered along the way as he formulated his own identity.

Teresa “Teddy” Maurer was born in Lykens, Pennsylvania. Following a move to Upper Dauphin County, she grew up and graduated from Halifax High School. From there she worked at the Nedrich shirt factory for a few years before moving onto a job with the state government. She eventually moved to Harrisburg and stayed there after she retired from her job at the state. She worked for the government for 37 years. She discusses her conflict with derogatory comments and other discrimination she saw in her workplace and in the greater LGBT community around her. She explains how her mother’s death at the hands of a drunk driver when she was 25 and how when a former girlfriend forced her to come out changed her life. She now works with the LGBT center to give back for the times when she could not.

Julie Lobur was born in New Kensington, Pennsylvania in 1955 and moved to Harrisburg in 1970. She received her bachelor’s degree from Penn State and added a master’s degree in computer science in 2003. Julie briefly served in the military in 1983 where she met her wife Marla, but was discharged because she is a lesbian. She currently works as a computer architect for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and an adjunct professor of computer science for Penn State.

Julie discusses her coming out process at the age of 18, in large part aided by the existence of something that might be unique to Harrisburg: a diner – The Commerce Diner – that catered to a gay clientele. Julie details how she met Marla, how they decided to get married in Iowa in 2009, how they came to be part of a set of couples suing the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to recognize their marriage, and how the lawsuit has completed her coming out process. She describes how attitudes have changed towards gay people over the years, and how this “sea change” in acceptance implies increased responsibility for gay people. She shows her gratitude to the gay men of Harrisburg by describing how they established the “gayborhood,” which she believes saved the city from blight. Human and institutional support networks have played a major role throughout Julie’s story.

Born in 1951, Mary Nancarrow grew up in the Harrisburg area, and from a young age, she has been involved in the movements for LGBT and women’s rights, especially for Central Pennsylvania. She has worked extensively with NOW, serving as the president for Pennsylvania NOW in 1984 and 1985. As part of this involvement, she helped to plan the first march on Washington for LGBT rights, which was eventually held in 1987. Additionally, she was one of the founders of the Pennsylvania Rural Gay Caucus, and she was also very involved in the drafting and passing of the Harrisburg Human Relations Ordinance, ensuring that the legislation provided protection against discrimination for LGBT people. She recently retired from the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission after over 20 years. In this interview, she discusses what it was like to be gay in the ’70s, ’80s, and ‘90s, particularly in the Central Pennsylvania area, recalling discrimination she and others faced during that time period, her struggles with coming out to her parents, notable events of the era and her personal reaction to them, and her dedication to LGBT and women’s rights and its role in her life.

Michelle Probulus, 43, describes her experience with realizing that she is a lesbian at age 40, while married to a man with whom she had two young sons. She discusses the complications of figuring out her sexuality and coming to the realization she was a lesbian and the subsequent difficulty of coming out to her husband, her children, her family, and her friends. After getting a divorce, she began getting involved in Lancaster’s LGBT community, and she describes her experiences in meeting people and working for greater LGBT acceptance, including starting her own oral history project to collect some of the experiences of women who realized they were lesbians later in life. She discusses how coming out has affected the way she raises her sons as well as her career choices, specifically her new sense of purpose as a guidance counselor in being an advocate and a support system for young people coming out.

Mark Stoner, born in 1959, grew up and currently lives in Lancaster, where he has worked as a graphic designer for the past 30 years. He came out as gay early in his college years at Penn State University and thereafter became involved in Lancaster’s gay community, both socially and politically. He was among the founders of the Pink Triangle Coalition and worked extensively with the organization for years. Additionally, he has been involved with establishing the first Central Pennsylvania Pride and Lancaster Pride, the Lancaster-area gay publication Inqueery, and the Lancaster City Human Relations Commission’s protections against anti-LGBT discrimination. In this interview, he discusses gay life from the late ‘70s to the present and its influence on his personal life, including his experiences coming out in a supportive environment, his personal relationship with religion over the years, the impact of the emergence of AIDS in the ‘80s, and political efforts to end anti-LGBT discrimination in Lancaster.

Transcription of Clarke Hess and Lee Stoltzfuss interview. This transcript is incomplete. Please contact archives@dickinson.edu for more information.

Larry Lee Thomas was born in Burnham, Pennsylvania in 1941, living there for at least 19 years before spending four years in the military, and shortly thereafter moving to the nearby city of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. After his first experience dating another man through a 20-year relationship, Larry now lives with his partner with whom he has spent 31 years. In this interview, Larry discusses his experiences as a self-identified gay man living in Harrisburg through the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, when there was a prevalent stigma against LGBT people and few places to safely express one’s sexual orientation and meet others in the community. He also discloses his challenges of managing both personal and professional relationships by selectively deciding to come out or not within particular social circles. While he does not actively participate in LGBT activism, Larry admires the amount of freedom that he sees in the gay community today, while commenting that LGBT young people may be unaware of how difficult life was only a few decades ago.

Bernie Pupo was born in Kulpmont, Pennsylvania in 1945 and attended Mount Carmel Catholic High School. After working in a factory after high school, Bernie moved to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where he worked as a window decorator for Pomeroy’s department store for three years. During this time, he also joined SCAAN, the South Central Aids Assistance Network, which is now known as the AIDS Alliance. In this interview, Bernie speaks about his most memorable experience as a Boy Scouts leader, as well as his experience working in and visiting gay clubs in cities such as Harrisburg, Reading, Philadelphia, New York, Baltimore, and D.C. During this interview, he also speaks about how he experienced very little homophobia in both his family and overall social life, despite living in a small town during the 60s and growing up as a practicing Catholic. Bernie, still Catholic, now works as a hair dresser and owns his own salon.

Prior to coming out at the age of 32, Ted Martin had worked for many years for the government and public policy organizations, chiefly in the areas of communications and advocacy. Martin lived in Washington, D.C. and worked for Congress before returning to Pennsylvania, where he worked at the Historic Harrisburg Association and then his alma mater Dickinson College, at which point he came out. He became involved with the Team Pennsylvania Foundation and became part of the Rendell administration, serving in the Department of Community and Economic Development and as an advisor on LGBT issues. He currently works as the Executive Director of Equality Pennsylvania, the PA LGBT advocacy organization. In this interview, he discusses his life prior to, during, and since coming out, as well as the ways in which being out and gay has affected his life and his work.

Born in 1949 to a Lutheran minister and his wife, Marlene Kanuck married a man, had two children, and got a divorce after 11 years of marriage before realizing that she was a lesbian. In this interview, she discusses her coming out process and the effects that being a lesbian has had on her life. A teacher and a divorced mother wanting to retain custody over her children, Kanuck was not able to be openly gay for many years, and she discusses that experience, as well as her experiences in long-term relationships and in raising her children with those women. Additionally, she describes her relationship with religion and where she thinks the LGBT community is heading in the near future. Currently working at the Pennsylvania Department of Education, Kanuck is also a founder of the LGBT Center, in addition to being involved with a number of other organizations, and she discusses her involvement in opening the Center.

For the very first interview of the history project, Edmund Good and Thurman Grossnickle describe their coming out stories. Thurman is a retired Scientist Administrator and has spent many years in academia and in health professions, as well as in LGBT organizations. He considers himself Brethren, although he no longer attends church, though a large part of his coming out process involved the organization, Dignity, which was primarily run by the late Father Saude (ph.). Upon discovering his sexuality, Thurman spent a considerable amount of his time dedicated to the LGBT community of Harrisburg, operating the Gay and Lesbian Switchboard, attending and hosting Dignity events, and serving as editor of the Dignity newsletter. Thurman discusses his involvement, his experiences living in Central PA, and his decision to never divorce his wife. Edmund is a retired apartment manager, though he is still involved in the Brethren Housing organization, which finds places for mothers going from welfare to work. Edmund explains that though he was always kind of aware of his sexuality, he hadn’t really come out before attending college. At Penn State, he was involved in several LGBT outlets, including the student organization HOPS (Homosexuals of Penn State), which was supported and funded by Penn State. Edmund, too, alludes to the friendly climate, which he’s experienced during his life as a gay man in Central PA. In the second half of their interview, Ed and Thurman tackle some deeper issues. Ed discusses how his work and family life didn’t change too much overall, but there were some bumps. At first, his parents didn’t understand what it meant to be gay, creating an estrangement. But with the introduction of Thurman into the picture, they had a change of heart. Ed and Thurman discuss other difficulties they’ve endured in 33 years as a couple. Despite being made coal on the carpet, a church backed them up and defied their national organization, making it a known safe space for LGBT couples. On a less happy note, they discuss a community’s reaction to Thurman’s friendship with a gay teenage boy. As Ed and Thurman reflect on the past events they’ve encountered, they note where we’ve come from and where we still need to go. Ed mentions several websites, webinars, and workshops that helped him as a gay man, but could also help others to understand and love thy neighbor.

Maria DiFava was born in Lebanon County, PA in 1953. She graduated from high school and attended nursing school and ultimately became an EMT volunteer. She later worked as a mail carrier for the US Postal Service. Marie married and had three children with her husband, whom she later divorced.

When she came out, DiFava started to look for gay organizations to join in her area. After travelling throughout Central PA, DiFava became frustrated at the lack of a lesbian community in Lebanon, thus the Lebanon County Lesbians organization was formed. The group met in DiFava’s home starting in June of 1997, and for the next few years, she hosted meetings in her home until she was able to have help planning events and meetings. DiFava advertised through Lebanon County initially, but eventually turned toward the entirety of Central PA.

Joy (Ufema) Counsel was raised in Altoona, Pennsylvania. After completing high school, (Ufema) Counsel began studying to become a nurse at the Altoona Hospital, and later completed a nursing program at Harrisburg Area Community College. Throughout her career as a nurse, (Ufema) Counsel developed an affinity for caring for patients who were terminally ill.

Searching for direction after facing a roadblock in her career, (Ufema) Counsel decided to use her experience in hospice care to alleviate the suffering she had witnessed in the AIDS crisis. After proposing the idea to the mayor of York, PA, (Ufema) Counsel bought an old brownstone for one dollar and began renovations. In 1991, York Hospice House was born. Counsel used her expertise in death and dying to design the home based on a philosophy of extreme attention to detail. She wanted to create “a tone in this hospice of love and acceptance and peace.” From 1991-1995, the York House provided care to 95 dying AIDS patients.

Sharon Mahar Potter was born in Buffalo, NY and raised in Scranton, PA. She began commuting to Harrisburg, PA for the first time when she was offered a position to build the early intervention system for disabled children in the city. Profoundly moved by a young gay man’s speech in a meeting of the House Education Committee, Sharon helped to establish and served as a leader for the Bi, Gay, Lesbian Youth Association of Harrisburg (Bi-GLYAH).

This collection holds items from Potter’s time as the organizer of Bi-GLYAH. Items include photographs of Bi-GLYAH youths at events and a stuffed Frog created during a Bi-GLYAH fundraising event.

These materials document the holy union of Nancy Datres and Riitta Lukkari. They also contain court documents and a photograph dealing with harassment Datres and Lukkari experienced from their neighbors.

Peg Welch was born in December of 1951 near in Chester County, Pennsylvania to her father, a carpenter, and her mother, a candy maker. A young mother to two children, Peg did not graduate from high school, but received her GED and worked at various jobs, eventually joining Parents Without Partners where she met her second husband, Phil. With his help supporting their family, she was able to graduate from Millersville University with a degree in social work, afterwards working at Big Brothers Big Sisters, the United Way, the YWCA, and Planned Parenthood. At the YWCA, Peg met her future wife Delma, whom she lives with today in York, Pennsylvania. Peg was an active member in York Area Lambda and helped to establish the Lesbian Alliance. In this interview, Peg describes her experiences as a single mother, her involvement in activism to get LGBT ordinances passed with the York City Human Relations Commission, her three marital ceremonies with Delma, as well as her belief in the importance of women’s spaces. Today, Peg is optimistic about the evolving opinions of the younger generation towards LGBT-identified individuals.

Delma Welch was born in Washington D.C. and grew up in Cardiff, Maryland as a Catholic with her three brothers and one sister. Delma began going to NOW [National Organization for Women] meetings in 1975 after becoming interested in feminism from an early age. After being in a relationship with a man for 23 years, she met her future wife at the YWCA and ended her marriage. Originally a stay at home mother, Delma has since held several jobs throughout her life, including her current position at the Margaret Moul Home. Today, she lives in York, Pennsylvania with her partner of 25 years, Peg Welch. In this interview, Delma discusses her involvement in many civil rights organizations and marches starting in the 70s, issues with coming out to her family, and marriage to Peg—once in Canada and once more in Pennsylvania, when gay marriage became legalized in the state. She also briefly expresses the importance of lesbian and woman-only spaces and her positive experiences dealing with the legal system as a lesbian woman in a same-sex relationship.

Jude Sharp was born in November of 1947 in East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania and graduated from the Philadelphia High School for Girls. She then attended the Tyler College of Art and studied the art of making jewelry. When she was 21, Jude married her first husband and moved to Denver, Colorado, where she opened her first jewelry shop. Upon ending her relationship, Jude moved back to Lancaster where she met her first girlfriend. Jude has been working with jewelry for nearly 50 years since, and currently has her own business, J. A. Sharp Custom Jeweler. In this interview, Jude discusses the roles her relationships and artistic visions have played in her life. In her childhood, she and her family frequently moved from town to town as her father, a Methodist minister, was transferred to different churches. She speaks of a pervading feeling of ostracism that was assuaged when she came out as lesbian, finally being able to be true to herself. Jude marvels at the changes her community has seen, and laments at the continuing problems with drug and alcohol abuse that face many LGBT individuals today, relating to her own experience. She reflects upon her desire to put creativity to a good purpose and form relationships with others through the medium of crafting personalized jewelry. Additionally, Jude discusses how her own sexuality has played a role throughout the rise of her career.

Barry Loveland interviews Alex Reber, now 32, who relates fascinating stories of what it was like growing up as an only child of an Evangelical Christian family raised on a farm in Bethel, a rural town between Harrisburg and Allentown and becoming an important political LGBT activist in Central PA. His accounts at camp and high school reveal the difficulty of being gay and the interesting paths towards his independence. In Lebanon Valley College he was outed and blackballed at church, being called evil and having parents refuse to help him pay tuition. A gay couple started a foundation to help gay students complete college and Alex, a gifted child who received a scholarship, graduated a semester early. His tales about finding and working with a thriving gay community in Harrisburg are enthralling. He got an internship and became friends with Dan Miller, a leader in the gay community, in Dan’s accounting firm, Miller, Dixon, Drake. He tells in detail his work over ten years with Planned Parenthood, beginning with his own experience of being treated and shamed by a physician. He discusses his romance and marriage to his husband during the exciting time when marriage became legal in Pennsylvania. It was a momentous time. He explains what it was like attending the Equality March, primaries for Obama and Clinton, and his experience at the 2016 Democratic Convention. He recounts the inside stories of the contradictions and fun of local state politics— and stories about running candidates for state office and working on committees for the Democratic Party of Pennsylvania. He is very involved at the Center, FAB, and getting LGBT people to run for office.

Heidi Notario was born in Havana, Cuba, in 1973, where she was attending college for biology before moving to the United States in 1995. Heidi discusses her disillusion with the ideals of communism as a factor contributing to her desire to go live with her aunt in the U.S. After arrival, she learned English while working at a daycare center before returning to college, eventually completing a Bachelors in Sociology at Moravian College in Bethlehem, PA, and a graduate degree in Sociology from Lehigh University. Heidi discusses her relationship with her fifteen year old son, and what she has observed raising him as a lesbian and a single mother in Central Pennsylvania. She details her involvement as the vice-president at the LGBTQ Center of Central Pennsylvania, as well as her work on gender-based violence and Latinos at the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence. Heidi touches on intimate partner violence against LGBTQ, and especially trans-identifying, people, as well as the differences in LGBTQ communities in Harrisburg, Allentown, and other larger cities.

Dr. Rachel Levine was born in Wakefield, Massachusetts on October 28th, 1957. With a great sense of humor Dr. Levine discusses her interesting life. She attended Belmont Hill School, where she excelled and engaged in athletic and creative activities. She graduated from Harvard College. She then earned her medical degree from the Tulane University School of Medicine in New Orleans, Louisiana. She trained from 1983-1988: three years of pediatrics, a year as chief resident, and a year doing an adolescent medicine fellowship, specializing in eating disorders and the medical care of young people with anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. She was working at Mount Sinai and Lenox Hill while in practice for five more years, from 1988 to 1993. She moved from Manhattan to Central Pennsylvania in 1993, joining Penn State College of Medicine faculty at Hershey Medical Center where she was Director of Pediatrics and Adolescent medicine. She was married before getting her medical license and had a son and daughter in Hershey. She transitioned in her forties, while at Hershey, and she is grateful for their support throughout. Dr. Levine is currently the Acting Secretary of Health and Physician General for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and Professor of Pediatrics and Psychiatry at the Penn State College of Medicine.

Suzanne Kohr, formerly Ott, was raised in Shippensburg, Pennsylvania. She is now 60 years old, and resides in Newberrytown, Pennsylvania. Suzanne had two children with her first husband, and has been married to her second husband, Tom Kohr, for almost two decades. Suzanne was the second oldest of eight children. She had seven brothers; Steve, Danny, Alan and Brian are all still living —and John, Andrew and Greg have passed away. Suzanne was close to her youngest brother Andrew who died from AIDS complications in 1997. Sue discusses Andrew’s strained relationship with his parents and siblings, and the prejudice he faced. She goes on to discuss some of his significant relationships, and life after moving away from Shippensburg to Virginia. Sue elaborates on Andrew’s frustration over HIV/AIDS treatment available to him, and his treatment up until his death. Sue concludes by describing Andrew’s legacy, and her hopes for increased acceptance of homosexuality by society.

David Klinepeter, father of the late Daniel Klinepeter, gives insight as a parent of a member of the LGBT community. He also speaks about his experience losing his son to AIDS and his advocacy with AIDS Memorial Quilt: The Names Project.